Wednesday, February 13, 2002

Zenpriest #44 - The Box Feminism Builds for Women


"Once feminist ideas are discarded the answers to your questions will become self evident."

I agree with this statement in principle, but in practice it has been tricky to figure out which of the ideas I've grown up with were the feminist ones, in the same way that I now forget what people who haven't been immersed in ship education for 6 years know about ships. Again, this forum's been very helpful for that.

Regarding some of the recent threads: I continue to work to become a better woman and to learn the housewifely arts, and being a wife and mother is my ultimate goal, but in the meantime (until a good man considers me to be Miss Right) I'm grateful that I can work in a field that I am suited to and that I don't have to depend on my non-existent man to provide for me. It seems that some are advocating just this dependency be required of women, and I wanted to point out that while perhaps ideal this situation is unrealistic unless you don't mind seeing innocent people starving to death while preparing for and awaiting marriage. This is why I'm sure I must be misunderstanding those posters. What exactly are they advocating?


As [was previously] said, we are all over the board. That is fallacy one that you have to overcome. So, the first feminist belief you have to discard is that all men are the same. We are not.

Fallacy 1a woud be that any of us can give you meaningful advice regarding anyone we don't know - ie a potential mate for you. The best answer I can give you is "ask him what he wants, then listen to what he says, and I mean really listen.

If you want to understand feminism in a nutshell, take the current joke men understand perfectly:

"If a man speaks in the forest, and there is no woman there to correct him, is he still wrong?"

The feminist position is that men are de facto wrong and women are de facto right.

The whole "oppression" bullshit has been used to make women fear being dominated, used, and messed over, so they reflexively and habitually resist anything a man tries to say or do. This leads to nothing but a power struggle which leads to people hating each other's guts.

The #1 issue men have with women these days is the inherent double standard almost all of them seem to assume is their birthright. When the economy was such that most families could live on one income, it was a pretty natural division of labor for the man to do the earning - often doing jobs women simply could not do when pregnant - and the woman to stay home, take care of the house and kids, and let the man go along for the ride with the comforts. Children were a team effort and both members of the team were specialists, not generalists.

But, now women not only get pretty much any job they ask for, under threat of lawsuit, but they always pick the plum jobs - the highest paying ones. This would be fine if they let go of the double standard and were willing to accept a man who cannot have her job because she has it, and has to settle for one making less. In general, women refuse to marry down because even as their earning power has increased, they have refused to change their expectations that men will be the breadwinners. Women are not clamoring for the jobs of garbage collectors, nor are the female Advertising executives etc marrying such guys.

So, women have manipulated law in such a way that "we get the cream, and you guys get the dregs, and BTW you are such LOOOSERS that we would never dream of marrying you."

No one is going to get into or stay in a relationship with someone whose primary purpose in life seems to be to tell him how flawed and insignifcant he is. The glue that holds a relationship together simply does not exist. Under constant demands to "perform", and now minus any objective standards save her ever changing whims, the relationship turns from one where there is any sort of "equality" at all, to one of mother and child.

Contrary to feminist bullshit, most men do not want to sleep with their nagging shrew mothers. Regarding the list, why in the world is "be nice to be around, rather than nasty, nagging, unpleasant, and tearing him down every chance you get" even need to be explained? Isn't that just common sense?

If someone told you all day every day how insignificant you were, wouldn't that qualify as "abuse"? You could probably even go to a "wimmins's shelter" and have him arrested for it. So, women can keep up a never ending psychological and emotional bombardment, from behind the shield of laws everywhere to protect her.

So, you don't "need a mayaan", because you can support yourself. A man in your life is an optional fashion accessory like Jimmy Choo shoes or an Armani handbag. This removal of real dependency, which creates a very strong bond of love much like parent-child, turns a relationship from long-term interdependence into one of moment to moment satisfaction.

QUOTE: "Also, your list and recommendation of The Care and Feeding of Husbands saw me through a relationship with a fantastic man."

What an interesting statement!! Saw you "through" it? Are you no longer in it?

If having a "relationship with a fantastic man" has become the equivalent of watching an extended movie, that is a core of the problem right there. Putting that together with "(until a good man considers me to be Miss Right)" and "I'm grateful that I can work in a field that I am suited to and that I don't have to depend on my non-existent man to provide for me" you give the impression that this "fantastic man" passed into and out of your life with hardly more than a "ho hum."

It is that very dependency that bothers you, which was what made marriages work. People really did need each other - they were far more significant than just for their entertainment value.

That is the core of your feminist beliefs.

So, you are very unlikely to find a man who is capable of and willing to support you for the following reasons:

1) you really don't need him to. You want someone who can give you an extended vacation from the rigors of earning a living, but

2) as a result of your "independence" and probably comfortable salary combined with no dependents, you have probably become accustomed to a lifestyle in which all your income goes to entertaining yourself, thus you limit your choices of mates to those men who make enough to support and entertain both of you in that fashion, plus the kids. Very few men make that kind of money, for many reasons including the fact that

3) YOU have the job that he might have had.

So, if you were to ever find such a man, given the fact that every other woman in the world is looking for pretty much the same things and the men who can do that are getting pretty scarce - what do you have, expect, or are willing to offer him in exchange other than sex?

If that is all you have to offer, then you'd better be damn good in bed.

Do you see the box that feminism and your own beliefs have built for you?


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